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  •  » Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

#1 2010-03-15 16:44:03

Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

For nearly a year you had a filibuster proof majority.

#2 2010-03-15 16:49:46

.
Guest

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

It was never a filibuster-proof majority, since it counted Lieberman.

#3 2010-03-15 16:50:21

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

. wrote:

It was never a filibuster-proof majority, since it counted Lieberman.

That explains why it's the republican's fault.

#4 2010-03-15 17:16:48

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

The republicans have been stirring up faux controversy with their astroturf tea parties and purposely misleading their constituents about the facts of health care.

FACT: Health care is already government run. Insurers do not cover procedures that are not government approved. The only difference is the accounting practices of the entity paying for the procedure.

FACT: Your healthcare decisions are already made by the government, not you and your doctor. Your Doctor makes a diagnosis and has to follow approved guidelines for your treatment. You have no say in the matter.

FACT: Administrative overhead is one of the biggest costs of healthcare. The paperwork has to be reviewed by individuals proficient in medical treatment and diagnosis, which essentially means you need a 4-6 year degree to become a medical secretary. Simplifying administration would drastically reduce the costs of administering health care.

Evil Republicans in the pockets of financial indenturers are responsible for the hysteria surrounding these needed reforms. They're using fear of poor services and esoteric ideas of freedom to keep people enslaved to private companies in order to get permission to live\receive necessary health care. Insurance has become a privatized tax, because if you don't pay it you can't afford health care. The only thing that will change with single payer health care is that 1 bureaucracy with democratically accountable leadership will pay the bills instead of multiple bureaucracies with a tangled web of financial and legal misdirection designed to provide the least amount possible to the insured.

#5 2010-03-15 17:19:08

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

That explains why it's the republican's fault.

When Lieberman isn't in the Democratic Caucus for the sole purpose of bragging rights immediately following an election he becomes a Republican and the cause of all the ills in the world.  Duh.

#6 2010-03-15 17:20:09

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

FACT: Health care is already government run.
FACT: Your healthcare decisions are already made by the government

Why do we need health care reform then?

BTW, you haven't explained why Obama the failure and his rag tag group of loony toons, couldn't get a non-binding resolution honoring motherhood through the supermajority democrat congress.

#7 2010-03-15 17:20:20

Veritas
Member
$19879

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

The republicans have been stirring up faux controversy with their astroturf tea parties and purposely misleading their constituents about the facts of health care.

FACT: Health care is already government run. Insurers do not cover procedures that are not government approved. The only difference is the accounting practices of the entity paying for the procedure.

FACT: Your healthcare decisions are already made by the government, not you and your doctor. Your Doctor makes a diagnosis and has to follow approved guidelines for your treatment. You have no say in the matter.

FACT: Administrative overhead is one of the biggest costs of healthcare. The paperwork has to be reviewed by individuals proficient in medical treatment and diagnosis, which essentially means you need a 4-6 year degree to become a medical secretary. Simplifying administration would drastically reduce the costs of administering health care.

Evil Republicans in the pockets of financial indenturers are responsible for the hysteria surrounding these needed reforms. They're using fear of poor services and esoteric ideas of freedom to keep people enslaved to private companies in order to get permission to live\receive necessary health care. Insurance has become a privatized tax, because if you don't pay it you can't afford health care. The only thing that will change with single payer health care is that 1 bureaucracy with democratically accountable leadership will pay the bills instead of multiple bureaucracies with a tangled web of financial and legal misdirection designed to provide the least amount possible to the insured.

Let me know when any government bureaucracy can run things more efficiently than the private sector.

It has never happened yet.  What makes you think it can happen this time?

Offline

#8 2010-03-15 17:21:01

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

The republicans have been stirring up faux controversy with their astroturf tea parties and purposely misleading their constituents about the facts of health care.

FACT: Health care is already government run. Insurers do not cover procedures that are not government approved. The only difference is the accounting practices of the entity paying for the procedure.

FACT: Your healthcare decisions are already made by the government, not you and your doctor. Your Doctor makes a diagnosis and has to follow approved guidelines for your treatment. You have no say in the matter.

FACT: Administrative overhead is one of the biggest costs of healthcare. The paperwork has to be reviewed by individuals proficient in medical treatment and diagnosis, which essentially means you need a 4-6 year degree to become a medical secretary. Simplifying administration would drastically reduce the costs of administering health care.

Evil Republicans in the pockets of financial indenturers are responsible for the hysteria surrounding these needed reforms. They're using fear of poor services and esoteric ideas of freedom to keep people enslaved to private companies in order to get permission to live\receive necessary health care. Insurance has become a privatized tax, because if you don't pay it you can't afford health care. The only thing that will change with single payer health care is that 1 bureaucracy with democratically accountable leadership will pay the bills instead of multiple bureaucracies with a tangled web of financial and legal misdirection designed to provide the least amount possible to the insured.

Based on your "facts" healthcare is already under government control, so this past year has been a complete waste of time, money, and energy.  Thank God the Republicans put this sham to bed. 

#9 2010-03-15 17:26:36

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

Veritas wrote:

Let me know when any government bureaucracy can run things more efficiently than the private sector.

It has never happened yet.  What makes you think it can happen this time?

The Federal government usually reports its Medicare administrative costs at about 2% of
total payments under the program while private costs vary dramatically from market to
market, but frequently are cited to be in the 15-20% range on average.

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resou … lPaper.pdf

#10 2010-03-15 17:29:38

Veritas
Member
$19879

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

The Federal government usually reports its Medicare administrative costs at about 2% of
total payments under the program while private costs vary dramatically from market to
market, but frequently are cited to be in the 15-20% range on average.

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resou … lPaper.pdf

Two problems with your example:

1).  Medicare is an utter failure, economically speaking.
2).  Government "reporting" of anything is quite suspect.

Offline

#11 2010-03-15 17:32:44

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

Veritas wrote:

Two problems with your example:

1).  Medicare is an utter failure, economically speaking.
2).  Government "reporting" of anything is quite suspect.

Two problems with your rebuttal:

1)  Medicare is one of the forces keeping health care costs DOWN, economically speaking.  Private healthcare is an utter failure.
2)  You asked for evidence, now when it's provided to you, you want to dismiss it.  Sore loser much?

#12 2010-03-15 17:42:10

.
Guest

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

Two problems with your rebuttal:

1)  Medicare is one of the forces keeping health care costs DOWN, economically speaking.  Private healthcare is an utter failure.
2)  You asked for evidence, now when it's provided to you, you want to dismiss it.  Sore loser much?

PURE LIE.

Medicare represents the single largest distortive force in the healthcare market. Medicare is the largest buyer of services in the US healthcare system.

Medicare constantly underpays for these services forcing providers to RAISE COSTS on the remaining market participants.

Your statement is therefore laughably, demostrably false.

Imbecile.

#13 2010-03-15 17:47:03

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

. wrote:

PURE LIE.

Medicare represents the single largest distortive force in the healthcare market. Medicare is the largest buyer of services in the US healthcare system.

Medicare constantly underpays for these services forcing providers to RAISE COSTS on the remaining market participants.

Your statement is therefore laughably, demostrably false.

Imbecile.

Wrong.  It forces providers to compete by cutting unnecessary costs.  By your logic, since Wal-Mart insists on paying the lowest wholesale price for its goods, other stores would be responding by increasing theirs.

#14 2010-03-15 18:05:59

Veritas
Member
$19879

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

Two problems with your rebuttal:

1)  Medicare is one of the forces keeping health care costs DOWN, economically speaking.  Private healthcare is an utter failure.
2)  You asked for evidence, now when it's provided to you, you want to dismiss it.  Sore loser much?

Total bullshit.

There isn't a single person who claims Medicare is keeping health care costs down.

As for evidence, I'll wait until you provide some.

Offline

#15 2010-03-15 18:11:13

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

Veritas wrote:

Total bullshit.

There isn't a single person who claims Medicare is keeping health care costs down.

As for evidence, I'll wait until you provide some.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/co … l/22/2/230

Exhibit 2Go also illustrates that over the past three decades Medicare has been more successful than the private insurance industry has in constraining its per enrollee cost growth for personal health care. By 2000 Medicare’s index number for per enrollee costs was 1,544, compared with 2,176 for private insurance. In other words, by 2000 the index for the private market was 44 percent higher than the index for Medicare.


While in many ways private insurers and Medicare track similarly in per enrollee growth rate trends over time, Medicare has proved to be more successful than private insurance has been in controlling the growth rate of health care spending per enrollee. Moreover, recent survey research has found that Medicare beneficiaries are generally more satisfied with their health care than are privately insured people under age sixty-five.12


Sorry your only response is to froth and spew and deny reality. 

#16 2010-03-15 18:21:23

Veritas
Member
$19879

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/22/2/230

Exhibit 2Go also illustrates that over the past three decades Medicare has been more successful than the private insurance industry has in constraining its per enrollee cost growth for personal health care. By 2000 Medicare’s index number for per enrollee costs was 1,544, compared with 2,176 for private insurance. In other words, by 2000 the index for the private market was 44 percent higher than the index for Medicare.


While in many ways private insurers and Medicare track similarly in per enrollee growth rate trends over time, Medicare has proved to be more successful than private insurance has been in controlling the growth rate of health care spending per enrollee. Moreover, recent survey research has found that Medicare beneficiaries are generally more satisfied with their health care than are privately insured people under age sixty-five.12


Sorry your only response is to froth and spew and deny reality. 

Son,  all your "evidence" proves is that Medicare artifically caps reimbursements to health care providers (the cost side of the equation.)  Even so, it is bankrupt.  And now that they want to cut reimbursements further, it will not only still be bankrupt, but will have most health-care providers opt out of the system.

Offline

#17 2010-03-15 18:29:37

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

Veritas wrote:

Son,  all your "evidence" proves is that Medicare artifically caps reimbursements to health care providers (the cost side of the equation.)  Even so, it is bankrupt.  And now that they want to cut reimbursements further, it will not only still be bankrupt, but will have most health-care providers opt out of the system.

"Artifically" 

And yet, major private healthcare providers all choose to accept Medicare and making a profit from doing so.  If your delusion were true, hospitals would be fleeing the system in droves.  Why isn't it happening? 

#18 2010-03-15 18:38:02

Veritas
Member
$19879

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

wrote:

"Artifically" 

And yet, major private healthcare providers all choose to accept Medicare and making a profit from doing so.  If your delusion were true, hospitals would be fleeing the system in droves.  Why isn't it happening? 

It is happening.

Offline

#19 2010-03-15 19:22:18

Re: Libs: Explain how HCR's failure is the republicans fault

Veritas wrote:

It is happening.

  Stamp your feet, that'll make it true!

Sorry you got owned by reality.

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